| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| oldsofas |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 12:35:21
First, Ruth and I want to thank all the members who entered the competition. And second we apologise for not deciding on a winner(s). We wanted to know if, and how, a competition would work, the pros and cons, and now we do.
We are going to start a new competition in January which will give everyone 6 months to put in their entries so - sorry for the anti-climax - but we'll be happy to take the entries from this run over to the new competition if the members wish.
The standard of upholstery was extremely high, which was really good to see, the only thing we seemed to have a consistent problem with was being sent photos that didn't meet the entry criteria. I put this down to the short notice so I'm sure it won't be a problem now that you'll have 6 months to organise one before picture, one at the point you finish stripping and three of the finished piece. That's all, no calico, no springing and no apologies for forgetting to show the piece stripped. I know there's a general dislike of 'rules' , but there are several reasons for the (very simple) rules in our competition;
1. because we're judging by looking at photos we need to see the project start point, how far back you strip it and obviously an all around view of the finished article - not just the side you're proud of.
2. you're all rightly proud of your work and every stage of it, but if you send in as many pictures as you want we'll have 30 pictures an entry. Not a problem if you're processing and compiling your own web pages, but it is if I have to - so five pictures only are allowed.
3. no exceptions - it's a competition and it's only fair that there's a level playing field for all the entrants.
Happy New Year - dates will be announced shortly.
D & R |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| oldsofas |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 09:47:02
Maybe if you asked for some support and advice you'd get some, |
| Marge |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 09:01:34
Yes - quite badly. I was looking around for some support and advice - but its much too scary here. You don't read the postings properly - you seem very opinionated and aggressive - and as I've browsed around the past postings on this forum it seems to me that it is Ruth who has the upholstery expertise- yet you are the one who has become the loudest voice. Interesting. The advice postings from Ruth are way back - thanks for those Ruth
I think this forum is definitely about you.
Don't think I'll be sticking around.
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| oldsofas |
Posted - 02 Jan 2007 : 08:21:06
Marge - the competition didn't just feel like ours, it was ours. And as flattered as I am with your 'expert' attention, - the forum may be mine, but it's not about me. Do you do upholstery?
 |
| Marge |
Posted - 01 Jan 2007 : 19:31:00
I take all your points - but you haven't actually addressed my observation about the competition being on the website- have you? I guess where a forum is run by someone like yourselves who are in a related business to the forum and have, indeed, taken the time to set it up etc. it will always feel like 'yours'- you must feel very territorial about it. I find your choice of Avatar quite interesting. (Yes I am in the field of psychology) |
| oldsofas |
Posted - 01 Jan 2007 : 18:44:21
Of course not - we've never fettered or inhibited any members right to express an opinion, especially if it's criticism. I think a lot of people put far too much store in praise when they would learn a lot more from criticism - after all criticism is more likely to be heart-felt. But I do get slightly annoyed when, after giving members access to have their pictures and opinions exposed to a massive audience on the internet, unlimited advice and assistance - all provided free of charge - Ruth and I get accused of being underhand!
For the record we've never deleted or barred anyone from the forum - the only exceptions are Sue Dixon for using this forum to secretly solicit members to join hers, and Sue MacNab who I deleted accidentally when I thought I was deleting Sue Dixon - it was too late to undo it once I'd pressed the button. As much as new member Monty ruffled my feathers this morning I won't deny him his opinion - even if I do question his motives - my bet is he doesn't have a lot to say and certainly nothing on the subject of upholstery.
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| Marge |
Posted - 01 Jan 2007 : 17:26:33
I think the other confusion may have come from the fact that the upholstery competition is advertised at the bottom of the old sofas main webpage. It does read as though it was up and running. I know I'm new but just an observation. Am I about to get my head bitten off? |
| oldsofas |
Posted - 01 Jan 2007 : 09:00:24
Monty
Whether you like it or not this is Ruth and my forum born out of our successful upholstery business and world best selling upholstery book. You join this forum on the 31st December 2006 and on the same day post a message questioning our integrity - whatever your motivation for joining I suspect it wasn't to share your knowledge of upholstery.
Have a full refund and please leave. |
| monty |
Posted - 31 Dec 2006 : 20:18:54
Cor Blimey
And we call ourselves adults!!!!
D & R do you not think that all this silly bantar could affect your business, it would certainly put me off doing trade with you...... |
| oldsofas |
Posted - 31 Dec 2006 : 14:00:20
You're absolutely right the seat looks fine. The only suggestion I would make is that through stuffing ties would have flattened out the seat a little - but that's more an observation that a criticism, it will flatten out once it's been sat on.
The 12th October post was prefectly clear and unambiguous. It was posted before any entries had been received and a clear 2 months and two weeks before the closing date - it stated that the competition would be a dummy run and gave members an opportunity to give their input. No-one did. There were replies but they didn't address any of the issues and raised no objections - if people reply to a post it's reasonable to assume they've read it - our mistake and a valuable lesson learned. We had to run the competition through to the end (the post expressly stated that we would and asked entrants to go along with it as if it were the real thing) in order to find out as many of the lessons possible - and thank goodness we did.
We've learnt a great deal - a real eye opener.
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| Berrybeachcomber |
Posted - 31 Dec 2006 : 12:40:00
Hi David,
Many thanks for the comments and advice. re Captain's chair, in which direction are you saying the seat looked too big as I've naturally gone straight to have a look at it again and as far as I can see all dimensions are as per original. There is no intrusion over the frame either in width or front to back and height seems to me similar to other chairs I've seen in that the upholstery just clears the bottom of the lower gallery rail and forms a low dome towards the centre. Springs were same number and height as originals. But of course the impression from a photo may be different.
Regarding the competition cancellation and some contestants appearing "upset" about it, having now read all the earlier postings I think the confusion has arisen from the last line of your notice on 12 October. I interpreted that and maybe others did so also as being that a decision would be made after forum discussion.In the absence of any further notice and entries being posted up to 23rd Dec I assumed it was still on.
However, it's not something to get upset about. We had presumably all done the work anyway and not solely as a competition entry. Speaking for myself, the greatest satisfaction is when I pass the chairs, think back to the "before" photos and then tell myself "I did that!" Yet 18 months ago before finding our local upholstery class I would have had to dump the chairs that needed doing that I already had and would certainly not have gone out to find and purchase the two wrecks that were to become my entries. I suggest we all put this down to experience and move on. Perhaps all putting in extra entries in the new competition, or was there a restriction on number of entries per person?
Good grief! I think I got carried away somewhat having now realised the length of this! My apologies.
Keep up the good work
Happy New Year to everyone.
Tony |
| n/a |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 23:32:53
hmm very interesting - have gone back to look at the photos myself to see what you mean (incidently did you see how wet the settee was? even if I wanted to I couldn't have just recovered that! they'd stored it in the garden for months and as we speak I have its sister parked outside as their extension isn't ready yet for me to do second one. There was dead mice, snails and goodness knows what else inside it!!!!!! took ages for just the frame to dry out and was one of the nastiest strippng jobs I'd ever had!)
I think I can see what you mean, the front edge should finish under the stitched edge roll - but as I said I was asked to keep the spring unit (hope the second one's in the same condition other wise we're in for a rocky ride) and the way it was constructed and attached left me no choice but to replicate the original way of upholstering, I still felt with the drop arm and the pattern matching that it worked ok.
Not an ounce of foam used - honest - quite a bit of wadding though
If can be bothered will send you the photos of its sister, but quite honestly don't feel the need to justify myself to you or anyone else. As you will have found out on your upholstery journey even with 6 'identical' dining chairs they can all be upholstered in a different manner but with the principles being the same. More than one way to skin a cat. Take your book, very informative, my students love its pictures and it helped me through my first drop arm with its principles if not its manner, however there's things I and others would do differently to yourselves. Now I'm not saying you're wrong, just not everything in this world is black and white, we're not in a court of law now.
good luck with it all - I did say in my original reposte that I'd thought that the competition was a dummy run, but that part of the answer wasn't addressed
cheers
www.tankslappers-mcc.co.uk |
| oldsofas |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 19:37:48
Goddbye? Surely you mean Goodbye! |
| Georgina |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 18:11:44
Seems to me the sour grapes are from the people who set it all up. Goddbye!! |
| oldsofas |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 17:33:01
If that's true then I sincerely apologise - both Ruth and I saw the same fault in the front edge of the seat on both the original and reupholstered sofa - we've still got the photos. How come you were the only one who read the "dummy run" post on the 12th October - or maybe I should say "understood" the post - Sue Dixon obviously read it because she replied 3 times!!
This isn't quite how I envisaged it, but the competition has certainly given this forum a bit of pep. Nice to hear from you Sue - you're always welcome. The rest of you; join in on the current debate - are Ruth and I a couple of post moving con merchants as alleged by some of the previous posts? |
| n/a |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 17:00:41
Just couldn't help myself logging on to see who won. Am very sad at the result, especially as I thought it was a dummy run and thought that was why you wouldn't mind my incomplete package of photos. I did genuinely forget - Mum being in hospital at the time - but rules is rules I know that. However if the reference to the sofa only having a piece of foam on it and a new cover was directed at me then I'm tickled pink as it was stripped down to its bare bones (although I did at the owners request keep the spring unit in it) and re-upholstered using I don't know how many bags of horsehair.
oh well toodle pip
good luck everyone
happy new year
www.tankslappers-mcc.co.uk |
| oldsofas |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 16:54:49
Tony, thanks for your comments.
Judging by the reaction to not anouncing a winner - can you image how much trouble we'd be in if we dared say that some entries were bad or indifferent? Your work is very impressive - as expressed by Jean - so you don't need confirmation from us.
For the record:
Jean's Louis XVI chairs were excellent, John's Edwardian arm chair was very good but we didn't like the style of chair (personal thing) but the Victorian nursing chair was a peach. Your rocking chair was very good as was your captain's chair - the only comment I'd make is that the seat looked slightly too big. Georgina's Victorian armchair was good but the seat part of the frame had extra wood added as a cheat by a previous upholsterer, this should have been removed and the height built up with upholstery i.e edge-roll. Sue's iron back nursing chair was a difficult project and was OK but the end result isn't as crisp/tight as it should be - she was also hampered by the most dreadful fabric.
There you go - whales only get harpooned when they spout. |
| Berrybeachcomber |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 16:12:49
I came into this very late as only found the web site when searching for some supplies shortly before Christmas. I knew that I did not have a fully stripped photo for my captain's chair and fully accepted that it probably would not be acceptable although it was pretty clear from the before photo that being completely covered over from an earlier re covering, it could only be renewed by complete stripping. But as I say I accepted that and just wanted to see how my stuff compared with other people's, and in the case ofthe rocking chair all photos were provided. What I had hoped for was thtat the winners decisions you made would be backed up with comments as to why certain pieces were good, bad or indifferent so that we could learn from our mistakes and am therefore very disappointed that not only are there no results to a competition that was apparently still on offer on 23rd December, but no comment or comparison that we could learn from either.
Regards
Tony Summers
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| n/a |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 14:39:09
Forever |
| n/a |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 14:34:23
Bye!!!! |
| oldsofas |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 14:22:00
Georgina, sorry I was writing the above reply so didn't see your whole hearted agreement with Sue's peeves before I posted it.
We did get all five of the photos you sent but only three of them complied with the entry criteria so I only posted three. By rights I shouldn't have posted any because you didn't send in three photos of the finished piece.
I'm getting disgruntlement from people who can't be bothered to read the rules or posts that have been sitting in front of their noses since the 12th October.
This really is an eye opener. |
| oldsofas |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 14:04:46
Thank you Jean, as for John and Sue-
On the 12th October under the title - "Upholstery Competition" I posted the following:
"We all think the upholstery competition is a good idea, but with reflection I'm beginning to think that it's too short a notice. What I propose is that we use this competition as a dummy run for another, bigger, competition between January and June next year.
Ruth and I want our competition to be an enjoyable experience for all and you only find the problems and glitches with experience so, even though it's now going to be a dummy run, please can forum members go through the motions with this first competition so we can learn what's right and what needs changing to make the Jan - June competition as good and prestigious an event as possible for you and for us.
I have been in touch with some glossy magazines and hopefully will be able to offer really worthwhile prizes - if, of course, the honour of being the winner of an oldsofas Gold or Silver award is not enough!!
Please let me know what you think - we'll do whatever popular forum opinion dictates.
D & R"
Sue, you must have read it because you added 3 replies - so which bit of it takes you by surprise now?
John, you obviously didn't read the above.
It took me a lot of time to re-size the massive photos that most of you sent in and to create a web page for each and every one of you. This forum is free, not to me, I have to pay a subscription each month to keep it on-line, but to you it's free. How much did we charge you to enter the competition? Nothing, it was free. What was in it for us? We thought it would bring a little excitement to the forum - lets face it some of the questions we get on here are dull as ditch water - and with it maybe some more interest.
You pay nothing - we do all the work - and here you are windgeing and suggesting that you've been short changed and conned in some way. You wouldn't believe the headaches it has caused me and Ruth. People who don't bother to read the bloody rules about what photos to send in - you included John. People sending us photos claiming that they just 'forgot' to take a picture of their piece stripped when it's obvious that the finished masterpiece is an unstripped sofa with a bit of foam layed over it with a new top cover - did you think we wouldn't notice!!
Anyone who wants their own forum - be my guest - put your hand in your pocket and get ready to put up with a load of ungrateful shit from people who feel a sense of grievance for getting more out than they put in.
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| Georgina |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 13:37:05
I heartily agree with Sue and her 'peeves'. I take in all the comments about rules etc but, with only five entrants, could not each of those entrants have received a copy of your book. No you are not a charity but good PR costs very little and would have left a much better impression than simply cancelling the whole thing. Like Sue I was not very confident of being a winner and yes, it was me who sent further pictures as all my originals did not arrive (no idea why - but there it is). I have received answers and help from David and Ruth whenever I have requested such and, because they have always been so helpful I thought better of them both. I shall continue to follow this forum (now I have found it) and maybe consider entering another competition when it is set up. Happy New Year to all who read this!! |
| John Turner |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 13:15:57
I totally agree with Sue.
The goal post have been moved too many times.
If this competition was to end like it has, Dave/Ruth should have called it off before the end of the competition and at least had the decency to say so rather than have us all strung along after the so called result on boxing day.
Have they done this just because they were disappointed with the amount of entreies and begrudge paying out the cost of the prizes!!!!! |
| n/a |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 12:59:33
I don't want any of this message to sound like sour grapes - I wasn't in it just to win (although its a competition so that's the overall point) - the friendly banter and ability to see others' work was as important. So why do I feel slightly p**d off? I think there's a point of principle here that needs exploring a bit further. If you were running a race - you knew the rules - were wearing the right clothes - had a number on your back etc.etc.- and when you'd put in the effort needed to run the 100m a man at the other end said 'well we're going to do it again - 'We wanted to know if, and how, a competition would work, the pros and cons, and now we do' Would you be miffed?
There were three people in this competition that 'obeyed the rules' - Jean, John Turner and myself. Therefore - technically there was a legitimate competition. I have no problem with you adhering to the rules but to abandon the 'race' for everyone??? - and after the deadline has been reached? a bit high handed I think.
And then expect everyone to put in the effort to enter another one?
Mmmmm - I need to think about that.
Sorry to be so shirty - just needed to sound off.
The point to really explore is not the competition - I really couldn't care less about that now -Is it that this forum is 'owned' by Ruth and David - who I know give everyone great advice and support - I would not be as confident myself without their initial support. Or is it a more democratic space?
I personally don't want another competition - its opened too many cans of worms.
I'd prefer to keep it as a chat, advice and support forum with more folk taking part and it feeling more of a 'shared' space.
I'm not picking on you David/Ruth - but I would be interested in your reply. I feel that this competition has shifted the 'balance of power'
Am I just being silly?
Probably
SueD
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| jean |
Posted - 30 Dec 2006 : 12:51:08
I've got no nails left!!! Never mind - they'll grow again and I'll be able to chew them off again in six months time! In the meantime Max is off to find some fake ones for me!
Good decision and thanks for all the effort you've put into it. Have a happy new year.
Jean |
